In conversation with... Prof. Dr.Thomas Stodulka
Mr Stodulka, please explain briefly: What is Permatil?
Permatil stands for Permakultura Timor Lorosa'e and is a grassroots organisation that has been working for many years to promote sustainable agriculture, ecological education and social justice in East Timor. Themovement originally emerged in the context of independence from Indonesia – today it is part of aninternational network called Permatil Global with partners all over the world. What is unique is that permaculture is an official part of the national school curriculum in East Timor – from first to ninth grade, supported by the president himself. It was already established in primary schools between 2015 and 2019, and the programme has now been permanently expanded. On this basis, four textbooks on permaculture in the tropics have been produced, and a fifth on “Planting Water” is in the works. They are used worldwide and have now been downloaded over 200,000 times in 162 countries. For this pioneering work, Ego Lemos, the founder of Permatil and my closest research partner, was awarded the Ramon Magsaysay Award – one of the most prestigious prizes in Asia.
What is your connection to Permatil?
I have been in contact with the founder, Ego Lemos, since 2012 and have been a collaborative researcher in the permaculture movement in East Timor since 2019, learning from it and supporting the team in the collaboration between research, education and practice. My connection began when Ego Lemos handed me a small booklet entitled ‘Permaculture for Children’. The principles of permaculture in the tropics and its emancipatory and decolonial educational potential immediately captivated me. Later, Ego came to Berlin, where I live, and we began to work more closely together. In 2019, I started asking him ethnological questions, and Ego said, ‘Let's tackle my PhD together.’ This resulted in a collaborative writing project in which we develop ethnographic case studies together with young people and publish them in journals and blogs. I am learning horticulture and how to read soils, mountains and dried-up water sources – and I support others in ethnographic writing.
What is special about permaculture for you personally – why permaculture in particular?
For me, permaculture is more than an ecological practice – it is an attitude. It is about understanding and nurturing relationships between people, plants, water and soil. This work is slow, collective and deeply rooted in everyday life. In East Timor, it means taking responsibility for each other and for the land – even without significant financial resources or technical equipment. I am fascinated by the fact that permaculture brings together different types of knowledge on so many levels: local knowledge, cosmological dimensions, scientific approaches, craft skills. It is a form of learning that is embodied, tangible and experiential. And it is a way of thinking about research differently – beyond hierarchies and academic output, and expressed in revitalised springs, trees, community gardens, and lower levels of malnutrition and undernourishment.
What exactly distinguishes working with Permatil from traditional development cooperation or university research?
Research is usually organised hierarchically: research institutions, funders or professors set the direction, and the goals are limited-access publications, new research proposals to extend the respective project, or websites with public impact. I also manage such projects. Here, it's completely different. We work collaboratively, bringing activists, young people and scientists together around one table. It's slow – ‘slowness is key’ – but sustainable. We don't need large teams or instruments, no third-party funding, just grassroots work. Many colleagues wonder what I'm doing there because it doesn't fit into the classic logic of output and research economics. But that's exactly its strength: it has real consequences for the people on the ground, even influences school curricula and makes knowledge directly usable.
And what is the Perma Youth Camp?
PermaYouth emerged from the Permatil and Permatil Global network. It is an extremely vibrant youth movement that mainly appeals to young people from high school onwards. A Perma Youth Camp takes place every three months: activists, facilitators and entire village communities come together for at least a month to set up the infrastructure for a week-long camp. Between 500 and 1,000 young people from all over East Timor take part. In October 2025, an international Perma Youth Camp took place for the first time. Until now, the camps have mainly been held in countries with stronger infrastructure, such as Taiwan, India and South Korea. Bringing it to East Timor is a huge step, but it also required an immense organisational effort.
Who is behind the initiative?
In addition to PermatilGlobal and many friends, especially Lachlan McKenzie, Ego Lemos and Permatil, the core team includes around 50 young volunteers from the villages, Yanti Wondeng and around 15 from the Perma Youth Association, many young artists, as well as several representatives from district administrations, local NGOs, the President of East Timor José Ramos Horta, and an ethnology student from Münster, Jakob Kreß, who is spending several months there researching for his master's thesis and creating an online story map for Permatil. The camps are generally free of charge. Unlike in many contexts in the Global South, there is not even any compensation for the participants' sometimes long journeys to get there. Nevertheless, the young people are incredibly committed – partly because of the certificates of participation, which they can later include in job applications. This also means that organic farming and horticulture are being revalued and can be a good career opportunity for many.
Who benefits most from the cooperation?
Young people, above all. After the camps, they receive certificates that they can use later in job applications. This enhances the status of horticulture and agriculture – an area that is extremely important in East Timor. There are arid regions in the mountains with up to 80 per cent malnutrition. Permaculture shows that it is possible to become self-sufficient again, reactivate sources and secure food supplies – using local knowledge and sustainable methods. For me personally, it is incredibly enriching that scientific work here also has a concrete impact on everyday life. This is rarely so immediately and directly tangible in the humanities and social sciences.
Can you name a moment that particularly sticks in your mind from your time working with the organisation?
One milestone was in 2022, when I spent a week in the thick of things. There had been a landslide in a village. The government advised the people to move away, but the residents did not want to lose their land and, above all, their water spirits, which are central to the balance in the village. So 600 young people came together and learned how to terrace the land within seven days. With little money, almost no financial resources, and yet absolutely effective. Two years later, the water returned slowly at first, and now it has actually returned. The spring is full again today, and for many villagers this means not only the return of water, but also the return of the water spirits, which in turn bring social interaction and community life to the village. Where once there was drought, both in an ecological and a social and cultural sense, life now flows.
This encounter between local communities and global issues such as colonialism, global warming and globalisation was incredible. With little bureaucracy, not top-down, but from the grassroots. That was an eye-opening moment for me. When I visited the gardens again two years later, a collective of ten young people had formed there, continuing the project and now cultivating large community gardens – without any outside support.
How can you become part of this movement?
It's actually quite simple. Permatil Global sees itself as an open network – anyone interested in permaculture can become a Friend of Permatil and get in touch with local groups in East Timor. You can find out about camps, projects and exchange opportunities via the PermaYouth website or Facebook page, or write to them directly. They welcome all enquiries; interested parties can also contact me directly for research projects or collaborations. Support for students is also available through our mobility funds and Erasmus programmes.
What is your vision for the future?
My vision is to bring the permaculture youth movement from East Timor to Münster – perhaps one day a Perma Youth Camp or the world's first PermaUni in Germany, here at the University of Münster. The goal is ecologically sustainable and embodied transcultural learning: young people from very different contexts should come into genuine contact and exchange, learn from each other, share ecological responsibility, and develop ideas for their future.
I would like to express my sincere thanks to Thomas Stodulka for the encouraging and pleasant conversation!
